外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

“我们希望有关媒体严格恪守新闻职业道德,珍惜自己媒体的信誉,不要再援引虚假或编造的消息。”在21日的例行记者会上,外交部发言人华春莹对美国有线电视新闻网(CNN)的一篇涉新疆不实报道进行澄清。

此前,外交部曾多次严词驳斥外媒对新疆局势的抹黑报道。围绕中国对新疆的治理,国际上有人存在误解,更有一些人出于某些目的刻意污蔑。为让外界更深入地了解真实的新疆,去年12月28日至30日,新疆维吾尔自治区政府邀请巴基斯坦、俄罗斯、哈萨克斯坦、吉尔吉斯斯坦等12国驻华使节前往参观访问。今年1月9日至16日,又有来自孟加拉国、埃及、土耳其、阿富汗等6国的12位媒体记者走进新疆。近日,《环球时报》记者联系到这些外籍人士当中的3人,听他们讲述自己的见闻和感受。

Shiabur Rahman, Executive editor of Bangladesh's Daily Sun

孟加拉国记者拉赫曼, 考察9天——

找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

Rahman: I visited the Xinjiang vocational education and training center that Western media called "re-education camp." I saw learners there being taught Putonghua and laws and trained in different vocational trades. I also saw many of them playing outdoor games and performing cultural activities.

我参观了新疆职业技能教育培训中心,就是西方媒体所谓的“再教育营”。我看到,教室里学员们正在学习普通话(国家通用语言)和国家法律,还有一些在接受各类职业技能培训。室外,很多学员正在进行体育锻炼,或做一些文娱活动……

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心学员在打排球(资料图)

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心娱乐室,女学员正在打台球(资料图)

I talked to the head of the center and a number of learners to know how they came to the center, what they were doing there and how they were being treated by the teachers or instructors. Most of the learners I talked to admitted that they either committed small criminal offences linked to religious fanaticism, extremism and terrorism, or were found to be inclined to fanaticism and extremism.

通过和很多名新疆职业技能教育培训中心的学员交谈,我才了解到,这里的学员或是此前犯过一些小的刑事犯罪行为,有宗教狂热主义、极端主义或恐怖主义行为,或是被发现有这些思潮的倾向。

I came to know from them that their families sent them to the center happily as they believe the center will motivate them to shun the wrong path and bring them back to the right path. Many learners said they were ignorant of the laws of China and the punishment for the offenses they were getting involved with.

他们的家人很高兴他们现在在培训中心,因为他们相信,培训中心将帮助他们不再犯错误,回到正确的道路上。有的学员说,他们此前甚至不了解国家的法律,也不知道他们参与的犯罪行为会导致(受到)惩罚。

I categorically asked several learners if they face any sort of oppression or torture at the center and they answered in the negative. They said they were happy with the treatment by the authorities, and the food and accommodation offered by the center.

我很直白地问过好几名学员:你们在培训中心有没有受到任何形式的压迫或虐待?所有人的答案都是否定的。他们对得到的待遇、食物和住宿都很满意。

The head of the center told the visiting journalists that every learner was trained in a vocational trade for three months after they passed the Putonghua and law exams. According to him, most of the around 1,000 learners, already graduating from the center, have embarked on their careers with some starting their own businesses and others joining different business entities. The head said the center even arranges jobs for the learners who cannot find jobs by themselves. According to him, there are around 2,000 learners in the center at present.

培训中心的负责人告诉我们,学员通过语言和法律考试后,还会接受为期3个月的职业技能培训。如今,已有大约1000人从那家培训中心毕业,大多数已就业,一些人自己做生意,另一些人则进入各类企业。这名负责人说,培训中心还可以为那些找不到工作的学员安排就业。目前,中心还有约2000名学员。

Abbas (pseudonym), a journalist who joined the Xinjiang trip this month

一名匿名外籍记者的遗憾——

很希望我国也这样做,可是……

Abbas asked not to give his real name or nationality as he worried that if he honestly shares the positive things he saw during the trip, some people would slander him claiming that he might have taken money from the Chinese government.

进入培训中心探访的记者还有阿巴斯(化名)。这名记者不愿对外透露真实姓名与供职媒体,因为他担心一些人会因他对新疆的积极看法而“被污蔑拿了中国政府的钱”,虽然他“只是想说出亲眼看到的东西”。

GT: What's your impression of the vocational education and training center? Did you suspect the interviewees were arranged to say words against their will?

您对职业技能教育培训中心的印象如何?您是否怀疑采访对象说的话是被提前安排好而讲违心的话?

Abbas: When you listen to the word "camps," you will imagine some places with chains, tired and depressed people. But this was not the camps I visited during my trip. The center looks like a university campus because they have big classrooms and good dormitories. They also have cafeterias and large playing grounds.

西方把这些培训中心称作“再教育营”,“营”这个字眼会让你的脑海里不由自主地浮现出锁链、劳累沮丧的民众等画面。然而,这完全不是我看到的情景。这些培训中心看起来完全像是大学校园,有宽敞的教室、很好的宿舍,还有食堂和大操场。

There were 40 students in one classroom, and I picked out interviewees on my own. We were free to ask anybody. And we were not picking students just from one classroom, but from almost all classrooms. I also saw some students in classrooms wearing their traditional caps and traditional dress.

每个教室有40个学员,所有人都是我随机挑选的,而且不是从一个教室里挑的。所有教室里都有学员和我聊过,我们想问谁都可以。许多学员穿戴着自己民族的传统服饰。

You can see from the photos that I've taken. They're all smiling and look in good condition. A man living under pressure would not have such an expression.

你可以看看我在培训中心拍摄的照片。你看这些人,看他们的眼神和表情,还有笑容,他们像是生活在压迫中的人吗?完全不是。

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心食品厂内,一名职工在冰糖旁比出胜利手势(资料图)

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心职工小学的孩子们在课堂上笑得很灿烂(资料图)

GT: Do you think your country should also adopt the same methods of de-extremization?

您认为贵国也应该采用同样的方法去极端吗?

My country is also plagued by terrorism. I hope my country can adopt some of these measures, such as setting up a vocational education and training center and carrying out poverty alleviation work, to help de-extremization. But they don't have so much money to do this.

我的国家也受到极端主义困扰,我很希望自己的国家能有类似中国职业技能教育培训中心这样的机构来帮助那些人找到出路,也希望政府能对减贫有更多投入,从根源上减少极端化。但这需要大量的财力和投入,我的国家无法像中国这样做到这些。

GT: Some Western countries and media outlets have launched vicious attacks on Xinjiang. What's your take on it?

一些西方国家和媒体总是蓄意抹黑新疆,对此您是怎么看的?

Abbas: I think the Xinjiang government has the right to take all these measures to push forward the social integration of its own people with the society. And if they make some plans to bring people's living standards up, it's a good thing and should be appreciated.

新疆采取的诸如职业培训中心等一系列举措,目的在于推动民众更快地融入“主流社会”。这是在帮助学员成为对社会有用的人,也是在帮助他们提高生活水平。这难道是一件坏事吗?

Xinjiang borders eight countries, and none of these eight countries has complaints. Only Western countries, especially the US, which have nothing to do with Xinjiang, are criticizing the Chinese government. But if the people in Xinjiang are lifted out of poverty, if they are given houses and jobs because factories are set up in the area, is it bad? I don't think so.

有意思的是,中国的新疆和8个国家接壤,但所有这8国中,没有一个(对中国的新疆治理政策)有批评或怨言。而西方国家尤其是美国,和新疆一点关系也没有,却在不停地批评。但是如果新疆人民摆脱了贫困,如果他们因为该地区建立工厂而获得住房和工作,这难道是坏事吗?我不这样认为。

GT: What do you think of Uyghur people being taught Chinese?

对新疆推广的国家通用语言教学您有什么看法?

Abbas: I think the government is very right to make people the useful part of society, because we were told that most of the Uyghurs cannot speak Chinese. But if you cannot speak the main and common language of your country, how can you compete? How can you run a business?

我认为政府帮助人们成为对社会有用的一分子是非常正确的,因为我们得知大部分维吾尔族人不会说普通话。如果你连自己国家的主要语言都不会说,你怎么找工作,怎么和人做生意?

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲和田市嘉梦幼儿园的小朋友正在上课(资料图)

Mumtaz Zahra Baloch, Charge d'affaires, Pakistani Embassy in China

巴基斯坦驻华使馆代办博楼池

——我没看到任何文化打压迹象

GT: Could you introduce your recent Xinjiang visit? During the trip, what impression did Xinjiang leave on you?

能否为我们介绍一下您前不久的新疆之行?那次访问,给您留下了怎样的印象?

Baloch: I was part of a group of diplomats from 12 countries including ambassadors and charge d'affaires that visited XUAR (Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region) from December 28 to 30, 2018. We visited Urumqi, Kashgar and Hotan. It was an amazing experience to visit this land of immense beauty, history and culture. This was not my first trip to Xinjiang. Our visit reinforced my perceptions about this region that it has a multicultural and multi-ethnic identity, that it is critical for the development of the western regions of China and that it is an important node for regional connectivity under the Belt and Road initiative.

博楼池:2018年12月28日到30日,我同来自其他11个国家的大使和代办一起访问了新疆。考察期间,我们先后去了乌鲁木齐、喀什与和田。这不是我第一次访问新疆,不过这次考察再一次加深了我对这一地区的了解,即新疆是一个集聚多重文化与多民族特征的地区,它对中国西部的发展至关重要,且是“一带一路”倡议下实现区域联通的重要节点。

GT: What impressed you most during the trip?

考察期间,什么事情或现象让您感触最深?

Baloch: As I said earlier I had visited Xinjiang on several occasions in the past. Every time I visit I am impressed with the fast pace of development of the region. This policy of development and poverty alleviation is focused not just on the richer cities but also on the poorer cities and counties. The development efforts at the grass roots especially in southern Xinjiang are remarkable and are aimed at improving the living standards of the people there. I was particularly impressed with village-run factories and SMEs (small and medium-sized enterprises) and the low-cost housing being developed for the villagers. I am confident that with such focused strategies to improve access of people to education, housing, livelihood, healthcare and social security, Xinjiang will be able to meet its developmental targets.

博楼池:正如我刚才所说,我以前曾多次访问过新疆。每次考察,新疆飞快的发展速度都给我留下深刻印象。我注意到,新疆的发展与减贫政策不仅在较富裕的城市实施,也覆盖相对贫穷的城市与县乡。尤其是南疆基层为发展而付出的努力非常显著,这些努力旨在提升民众的生活水平。我印象特别深刻的还有村办工厂和中小企业,以及为农民开发的廉价住房。我相信,有了这些旨在改善民众教育、住房、生活、医疗和社会保障水平的措施,新疆一定能够实现其发展目标。

GT: Did you visit the vocational education and training centers during the trip? What's your take on it?

您在访问期间实际走访了哪些地方?有没有去国际媒体最关注的新疆职业技能教育培训中心?

Baloch: Our visit program was quite broad which enabled us to get a glimpse of the situation in Xinjiang. During the visit we had the opportunity to visit the Xinjiang Islamic Institute, the bazaars, mosques, police stations, economic development and poverty alleviation projects and vocational education and training centers.

博楼池:我们此次考察涵盖的范围相当广。我们有机会参观新疆的伊斯兰教经学院、大巴扎、清真寺、警察局,一些经济发展和扶贫工程,以及职业技能教育培训中心。

We were given full and open access to the three centers that we visited in Kashgar and Hotan. The training program includes teaching of national common language (Chinese), law and constitution and vocational skills. The students also participate in recreational activities like sports, music and dance. We witnessed several skill classes being offered in these centers.

考察中,位于喀什与和田的三个职业技能教育培训中心对我们完全开放。我们看到那里的培训方案包括教授国家通用语(汉语普通话——编者注)、宪法和法律知识以及职业技能,学员们参加体育、音乐、舞蹈等文体娱乐活动。我们还观摩了几堂职业技能课程。

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心手机厂的职工在工作(资料图)

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心食品厂的工人们正在分装食品(资料图)

During the visits to these centers, we had the opportunity to interact with both the management and the students. We observed the students to be in good physical health. The living facilities are fairly modern and comfortable with separate dormitories for men and women. They are being served hallal food.

参观期间,我们有机会和中心的管理层及学员互动。我们观察到学员的身体状况都很好,生活设施也相当现代化。他们住在男女分开的宿舍里,条件舒适,那里提供的食物是清真食品。

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心厨房(资料图)

外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据

▲于田县职业技术教育培训中心职工食堂(资料图)

GT: Have you found the existence of forced labor, cultural or religious oppression?

您发现有强制劳动、文化打压或宗教压迫的情况吗?

Baloch: During this visit, I did not find any instance of forced labor or cultural and religious repression.

博楼池:本次访问,我没有发现任何强制劳动或文化宗教压迫的现象。

The imams we met at the mosques and the students and teachers at the Xinjiang Islamic Institute told us that they enjoy freedom in practicing Islam and that the Chinese government extends support for maintenance of mosques all over Xinjiang. I learned that there are over 30,000 mosques all over Xinjiang that form part of the religious life of the people there.

我们在清真寺遇到的伊玛目以及新疆伊斯兰教经学院的师生都表示,他们在信奉伊斯兰教方面享有自由,且政府在新疆各地清真寺的维护上也提供了帮助。我了解到,全新疆有超过3万座清真寺,它们是当地民众宗教生活的一部分。

Similarly, I did not see any sign of cultural repression. The Uyghur culture as demonstrated by their language, music and dance is very much part of the life of the people of Xinjiang. We saw that in official establishments, airports, subway stations, police stations or hotels the Uyghur language is being widely used. Even the copies of the Koran that we saw in the mosques and the Islamic center were translated into the Uyghur language. The most visible sign of protection of Uyghur culture by the government is the government-run bilingual kindergarten schools where children learn Putonghua as well as Uyghur language and culture from a very young age.

同样,我没看到任何文化打压迹象。维吾尔族的语言、音乐和舞蹈等民族文化要素构成了新疆人民生活的一部分。我们注意到,在当地的官方机构、机场、地铁站、警察局和旅店,维吾尔语被广泛使用。我们甚至在清真寺和伊斯兰教经学院看到被翻译成维吾尔语的《古兰经》副本。中国政府保护维吾尔文化最明显的例证是开办的双语幼儿园,在那里孩子们从小就同时学习普通话和维吾尔语言文化。

GT: Xinjiang has been a region beset by terrorism. How did you feel about Xinjiang's security situation during this visit?

对于新疆正在实施的一些强化安全、打击恐怖主义的措施,您有什么看法?

Baloch: We learned that the recent measures have resulted in improvement of the security situation in Xinjiang and there have been no incidents of terrorism in recent months. The counter-terrorism measures being taken are multidimensional and do not simply focus on law enforcement aspects. Education, poverty alleviation and development are key to the counter-terrorism strategy of the Chinese government.

博楼池:在行程中,我们获悉,最近实施的安全措施改善了新疆的安全局势,近几个月都没有发生恐袭事件。新疆正在采取的反恐措施是多方面的,不仅仅侧重在执法上,教育、扶贫和经济发展都是政府反恐战略的关键抓手。

GT: Based on your observation, do you think the current methods adopted by the Chinese government benefit Xinjiang's development?

在您看来,这一系列政策措施是否有利于当地的稳定与发展?

Baloch: I understand that Xinjiang's development is key to the western development strategy of China. We can witness signs of this development even in remote parts of the region including the less developed areas in the south.

博楼池:我理解新疆的发展是中国整个西部发展的关键。即使在新疆的偏远地区,比如南部欠发达地区,我们也看到发展的势头。

Development of infrastructure, airports, railways and the road network has enhanced connectivity of Xinjiang with the rest of China and with neighboring countries. Xinjiang is thus ready to play a critical role in the development of the Belt and Road initiative.

基础设施、机场、铁路和公路网的修建增强了中国其他地区和新疆、新疆和邻近国家的联通能力。新疆已为在共建“一带一路”和中巴经济走廊项目中发挥关键作用做好准备。

Xinjiang is undergoing rapid industrialization through preferential tax policies to attract domestic and international enterprises. The governor of Xinjiang informed us that Xinjiang's pairing with better-developed provinces and municipal cities including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangdong, Shandong and Zhejiang has brought fruitful results. Today Xinjiang's GDP exceeds 1 trillion yuan ($144.2 billion).

新疆正在经历一场快速的工业化进程,它通过税收优惠吸引国内外企业入驻。自治区政府主席告诉我们,新疆与包括北京、上海、广东、山东和浙江在内的较发达地区展开经济合作,取得丰硕成果。现在新疆的GDP总量已超过1万亿元人民币。

The hope is that peace and stability in the region together with policies for socio-economic development will further encourage investment in Xinjiang. This would also increase the prospects of the local population playing an even bigger role in development of the region especially with the growing focus on vocational training and Putonghua skills.

希望新疆的和平稳定加上这些促进经济社会发展的政策,能进一步鼓励外界投资。随着职业技能培训和普通话的推行,新疆本地人口未来有望在该区域的发展中发挥更大作用。

未经允许不得转载:国际 » 外国使节记者讲他们眼中的新疆:找不到西方媒体那些“想象”的依据